REPRODUCED
AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES
RELEASED
PER P. L. 102-526 (JFK ACT) 5-2-96
Notes –
Silvia Odio interviewed 1/16/76
She
first heard of the Kennedy assassination on the radio while on the way back
from lunch and she immediately thought of the visit of the three men to her
apartment and the conversation she had with them.
It produced a tremendous amount of fear in her
and she later passed out. (She had been under mental strain of marital problems
and the responsibility of caring for her four children after her husband
deserted her.)
The next
thing she remembered was watching television with her sister and seeing Oswald
and both recognizing him as one of the men who came to the apartment. "We
were just so scared because we both recognized him immediately." They both
were extremely frightened and very anxious about the welfare of their eight
brothers and sisters (10 children in the family) and their mother and father in
prison in Cuba and, since they didn't know what was going on or whether or not
there had been a conspiracy of many involved in the assassination, they both
decided not to bring their experience to the attention of the authorities.
("I never wanted to go to them, I was afraid. I was young at the time, I
was recently divorced, I had young children, I was going through hell. Besides,
it was such a responsibility to get involved because who is going to believe
you, who is going to believe that I had Oswald in my house? I was scared and my
sister Annie was very scared at the time, she was only 14.)
JAMES
HOSTY
She
recalls when she was interviewed by (FBI Agent James) Hosty that he kept
pressing her to remember the specific day that the three men came to her
apartment and she couldn't specifically remember. Still they kept pushing her
for the exact date. (I kept telling them that I don't remember the date but I
know that it was in the last days of September because we were moving at the
time and that we had boxes all over the living room and that in order to open
the door we had to jump all over the boxes. But I could swear I don't remember
the day, but when I read the Report I found they had set a day and that they
had done it for me.") ("I only remember it must have been the last
days of September because we had already a lease for another apartment and that
it was the middle of the week, not a Saturday or Sunday.")
She says
she doesn't specifically remember being asked about Loran Hall, Lawrence Howard
or William Seymour but she was shown numerous photographs, many even after she
had moved to Miami in September of 1964, but was never told the names of anyone
whose photograph she was shown. She recognized no one but Oswald. (I showed her
photographs of Hall, Howard and Seymour which were in Tattler, Sept. ‘75, and
she recognized none of them.) I asked her about the possibility that it might
have been someone who looked identical to Oswald.
She
said, "When you see someone as close as I'm seeing you now, even closer
because we were standing by my door for about 15 minutes and the light was just
coming down upon their faces, when I saw him on television I recognized him
immediately. And this guy had a special grin, a kind of funny smile. He kept
smiling most of the time, he kept trying to be pleasant, but the other guys did
all the talking."
"Well,
you know if we do find out that this is a conspiracy you know that we have
orders from Chief Justice Warren to cover this thing up."
She
remembers specifically that he was introduced to her as "Leon
Oswald," and he himself said, "My name is Leon Oswald."
She says
the thing she remembers most about one of the guys is that he had a "funny
kind of forehead. It just sort of went back, with no hair on the side. It was
peculiar and it's hard to explain."
She has
the feeling, also, that the three men wanted her to know that they were going
on a trip, that they specifically mentioned that they were going on a trip.
She
wrote her father and told him of the men but he said he didn't know them and
not to trust anyone.
She also
told her psychiatrist, a Dr. Einspruch, then at Southwestern Medical School, of
the incident.
WESLEY LIEBELER
She
wonders why, after she was questioned by the FBI, they waited so long to call
her back. It wasn't until the middle of the summer that Liebeler came to Dallas
to question her.
She
asked how candid she could be with me and I said I wished she would be totally
candid. She said she could say something but she's afraid she could get in
trouble because it would be only her word, although she would swear to it. She
said she hasn't told this to anyone except a Mr. Martin Phillips who came to
talk to her about putting her on Dan Rather's CBS assassination special
television show. She refused to [go] on the show but she did talk to Phillips.
She said she told part of this story to Phillips but has never mentioned it to
anyone else.
She said
that after Liebeler questioned her for the second time that day (the first
interrogation started at 9 a.m.; the second at 6:30 p.m.) he asked her out to
dinner.
"That
surprised me, but I was afraid and I went. We didn't go out alone. We went out
with someone who was supposed to be Marina Oswald's lawyer. I don't remember
his name, but Mr. Phillips from CBS knew. We went to the Sheraton to eat
dinner. I thought perhaps there was something behind it and there was a kind of
double talk at the table between the lawyer and him. I wasn't sure they wanted
me to hear the conversation or they wanted to convince me of something or
wanted me to volunteer something. He (Liebeler) kept threatening me with a lie
detector test also, even though he knew I was under tremendous stress at the time.
But one thing he said, and this has always bothered me, he said to this other
gentleman, I don't remember his name, he said, "Well, you know if we do
find out that this is a conspiracy you know that we have orders from Chief
Justice Warren to cover this thing up." (I asked: Liebeler said that?)
"Yes, sir, I could swear on that."
At the
time, she said she thought that maybe it was a bait for her because she had the
feeling that they thought she was hiding something more, that she was involved
with other Cuban groups perhaps or that she knew more than she was saying.
"That was the feeling that I got by the time that they took me to dinner,
that maybe if I had a few drinks and the conversation became very casual, I
would go ahead and volunteer information he thought I was hiding. I wasn't
hiding anything. But what he said struck me. I remember I had a Bloody Mary and
thinking to myself, "My God, I'm not that drunk." I had one Bloody
Mary and that's all I was having. If it was for my sake that he was saying that,
it if it was a little game they were playing with me, I don't know. That's when
I said to myself, "Silvia, the time has come for you to keep quiet. They
don't want to know the truth."
"But
that made me angry. Not only that, he invited me to his room upstairs to see
some pictures. I did go, I went to his room. I wanted to see how far a
government investigator would go and what they were trying to do to a witness.
Of course nothing happened because I was right in my right senses. He showed me
pictures, he made advances, yes, but I told him he was crazy. He even mentioned
that they had seen my picture and that they had even joked about it at the
Warren Commission, saying like what a pretty girl you are going to see, Jim,
and things like that. To me that was all so, I don't know, anti-professional. I
wasn't used to this sort of thing and I was expecting the highest respect, you
know, and I wasn't expecting any jokes in the investigation of the
assassination of a president. So that's why I'm telling you why my feelings
changed because I saw something I wasn't expecting to see. I wanted to see
someone who was carrying on an investigation who was serious about it but
somehow I had the feeling it was a game to them and that I was being used in
this game."
The fellow
who Liebeler identified as Marina Oswald's attorney had not been at her
questioning but they picked him up on the way to dinner. He left after dinner
and did not go up to Liebeler's room with them. (Showed her all the photographs
I had with me and she could identify only Oswald in any of them. Except for one
photo which I believe was taken of individuals coming out of courtroom
following hearing in New Orleans concerning the Bringuier-Oswald fracas.) She
identified the man in the background (center left) as her uncle and said she
didn't know her uncle was involved with Bringuier.
I told
her that according to an FBI report, her uncle, Dr. Augustin Guitart, admitted
to being at that court hearing. She said her uncle never mentioned his
involvement with Bringuier but that she knew he was a "fierce" anti-communist.
(She herself, she earlier said, was associated with the more liberal element of
Manolo Ray's party and had always been a Kennedy fan.)
She said
she has always wondered who the other two men who came with Oswald were and has
always looked for photographs of them. She says she is pretty sure that one of
them was a Mexican. Again she mentioned the "weird forehead."
"...he
invited me to his room upstairs to see some pictures. I did go, I went to his
room. I wanted to see how far a government investigator would go and what they
were trying to do to a witness. Of course nothing happened because I was right
in my right senses. He showed me pictures, he made advances, yes, but I told
him he was crazy."
AMADOR
ODIO
I asked
her why she thought she was selected for the visit. She said probably because
her father was well known. He was a millionaire who helped Fidel in the
mountains. He transported all the arms that went into the Sierra Maestras. He
supplied arms and medical supplies. There was hardly anyone in the underground,
she said, who didn't know who her father was. The family was exiled for three
years when Batista was in power because her father refused to sell his
transportation business. He was described in Time magazine as the
"transport tycoon" of Latin America. She says he had a tremendous
number of enemies, both business and political. He supplied the truck for the
assault on the palace on the 13th of March. He went into exile after that in
Miami. (I asked if she knew Pawley. She said she didn't but that her father
knew almost everyone.) "We were very strong supporters of Castro until we
felt betrayed by him."
She said
she was surprised at the details of her father's life that was known by the
three men who came to her apartment, the fact that they knew where her father
was in prison. They mentioned the movements that her father had been in
politically and called him Amador-Odio. They said they belonged to the JURE
movement and knew she belonged to the JURE Movement, as did her father. (That
was Manolo Ray's movement.)
But she
also says that when she thought about it later it wasn't that difficult for
anyone to know of her and her involvement with JURE because the Cuban community
in Dallas wasn't that large and they all lived in about the same section of
town. Also, there had been a big rally in a park on a liberation day (she
didn't remember which day) and she delivered the invocation. That was covered
by the newspapers and the television stations and she said the FBI later told
her that it thought that Oswald could have been there mingling with the Cubans.
Also it
was possible, she later thought, that the three men knew of her because when
her father had been sentenced to prison it was a big story in the Dallas
newspapers. It had all the information about a millionaire and his family and
it also carried her sister Serita's picture. (Serita had come to Dallas before
Silvia and was attending the Univ. of Dallas.) At first her father was sentenced
to die and that's why it was such a big story. Silvia was still in Puerto Rico
at the time. (Serita is now in Mexico.)
She says
that when the three men came to the door they first asked for Serita and that
they seemed confused, but when she told them she was Silvia and that she was
the oldest they said it was she they wanted to talk with.
JOHNNY
MARTIN
That
reminded her of Johnny Martin. "Johnny Martin came out of the blue,"
she said. "That was a very strange thing. I don't know how he got involved
with my sister Serita, how he was introduced to her. The strange thing about
him was that his family lived somewhere in a Latin American country and he had
this laundry, this coin laundry he operated. He would tell Serita to being
(sic) her clothes there and he wouldn't charge her. And then Serita brought him
to our house and we started talking about a lot of things. He was very clever
and we were very young and soon he was telling us he could get arms for our
movement. I got in contact with Eugenio (Rogelio Cisneros) and he told Ray he
was coming to Dallas to meet Martin." Martin she says always seemed to be
broke yet he said he had a lot fo (sic) contacts in Latin American governments.
Nothing came of the meeting between Martin and Cisneros because Cisneros didn't
trust him.
LUCILLE
CONNEL
Re:
Lucille Connell. She was a Protestant who got involved in the Catholic Welfare
Bureau. She came on very strong with Silvia as soon as she arrived in Dallas
and, in fact, had sponsored her trip from Puerto Rico. Connell had known her
sister Serita first. "She struck me as the most fantastic, the most kind
and considerate person I ever met," says Silvia. "She was just so
generous, and I had tremendous admiration for her."
"She
was very involved with a lot of different groups and talked to me about them.
She was very intense about the John Birch Society. She was also involved with
the Rosicrusians. And also with the Mental Health Association in Dallas."
She was
a very wealthy women (sic), married to a wealthy man but she divorced him and
is now living in Long Island, remarried. (Name now Lucille Light - 50 Wynn
Court-Muttontown, Syoset, Long Island 516-921-3519 Her husband (Connell) had a
large CPA firm in Dallas. J. B. Connell?)
Connell
had even gotten her psychiatrist, Dr. Einspruch (who later went to Philadelphia
Naval Hospital.) (She later visited him there; he was wearing a uniform.)
She
described Mrs. Connell as a person who knew all the key people in Dallas.
"She
was a very strong person. She tried to use the fact that I was ill in order to
control me, my thoughts, my friends, my goings and comings, the way I raised my
children. It came to a point when she called me every night to get a report on
what I had done for the day, who I had seen, where I had been. She had a
tremendous memory, a very tremendous memory. She could recall something,
something she had seen or heard right away. I remember I mentioned the fact of
the men's visit just once to her and she never forgot.
"You
have to remember that I arrived in Dallas under tremendous pressure, I had just
suffered the trauma of divorce, I had four children, I had all this
responsibility of my brothers and sisters, it was a tremendous burden. And
Lucille took me under her wing, took me to the country club, wanted to buy me
dresses, wanted to introduce me in certain circles. I always had the feeling
she was getting me ready for something."
FATHER
MCHANN
"Then
came this Father McChann. Father McChann and I became very close friends and he
was going through his own crisis in his life. Lucille used him, managed him, handled
him. I don't know how to say it. Lucille tried to get us together and then
tried to get us apart and got jealous of our relationship in the meantime.
People are very complex. She was very moody and enjoyed playing with our lives.
There was a time when I couldn't say no to her for anything, She would call me
at two o'clock in the morning and say, "I don't want to sleep now, would
you talk to me? and I felt I had to even though I didn't want to and had to go
to work the next morning."
Only
with Dr. Einspruch's help that she got strong enough to pull herself away from
Mrs. Connell.
"This
is why she was angry with me and maybe why she called the FBI. She was very
angry with me because I was pulling away from her and getting stronger."
She had
also developed a relationship with a wealthy couple named Rodgers and Mrs.
Connell was very jealous of that, also. (John Rodgers was the president of
Texas Cement.)
REINALDO
GONZALES - ANTONIO VECIANA – JORGE SALAZAR
(I asked
her about her knowledge of Reinaldo Gonzales and Alpha 66 founder Antonio
Veciana.) She knew of them and of her father's role in hiding Gonzales. She had
never met Veciana and did not know what he looked like.
She said
she also knew Jorge Salazar (mentioned in O'Toole-Hoch piece as Dallas Alpha 66
leader whose home at 3126 Hollandale was meeting place where Oswald was seen),
but was never at that address and was never involved with Alpha 66. Actually,
she only knew of Salazar and doesn't actually know what he looks like.
“LEON”
OSWALD
(I had
her review her testimony and she recalled certain details: )
That
Leon Oswald's name had been repeated. One guy said, "I'd like you to meet
Leon Oswald." Then he said, "My name is Leon Oswald."
That
Oswald had a slight beard and more of an indication of a moustache, as if he
hadn't shaved in a day or so or (as they said) had just come from a trip.
That he
(Oswald) had on a green shirt.
That one
of the men was very hairy and showed a lot of hair on his chest above his
shirt.
Leopoldo,
the tall one, was driving.
One of
them called the day after and, more likely she thinks, the day after that.
That one
of them had pockmarks on his face and a very bad complexion. He also had a
"funny kind of head," a lot of hair but "big entrance on the
side.
(re Mrs.
Connell again: I asked her about Connell's report to FBI re Gen. Walker and
Col. Castorr) "Mrs. Connell was apparently involved in more than she pretended.
Whenever she wanted to find out some information she would take me out to
lunch. I wasn't aware at the time she was using me. I knew she was involved
with key people in Dallas and she was continually getting phone calls where she
would lock herself in her library when she answered them. She was always
mysterious, and always very careful not to mention information, she always
asked.
She did
mention Gen. Walker, we talked about Walker. I knew she was involved with his
movement and with the John Birch Society. I think that's why she was involved
with the Cubans, because we were very usable people, and expendable. (Did she
ever mention Conservatives of the USA?) "Yes, she did. We discussed that,
I remember the name." (Re Connell-cont.) "And then all of a sudden
one summer she decided to become a Rosicrusian, and she started traveling, was
it Oklahoma or someplace where the Rosicrusians have a headquarters? She
traveled quite a bit on that, I remember because she showed me a card, they
issued her a card.
She
married a guy who takes tours to Europe and has a lot of money...
Another
association she recalled was the name of Russo, which she heard mentioned as
part of Garrison's investigation. She says the name rang a bell and she finds
it interesting that he knew Oswald by the name of Leon Oswald also.
Connell
was not only involved with the Mental Health Association but very interested in
psychology, mind control and brainwashing. She had a lot of books on the
subject.
That's
when I said to myself, "Silvia, the time has come for you to keep quiet.
They don't want to know the truth."
Silvia
specifically remembers that when Leopoldo called her back on the telephone and
told her about Oswald talking about killing Kennedy, it was not a weekend day
(Sat. the 28th or Sunday the 29th) because she remembers working that day and
getting the call after she came home from work, about 7:30 p.m. She is pretty
sure it was not the day after their visit, but the following day (which would
make it Friday the 27th at the latest; because Monday was the 30th and she was
moving by then.)
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